Vindawg Vinnie wrote 4Jul2015:
“So since some clergy "start atheist churches",
then Atheism is yet another religion with a doctrine.
Merriam-Webster dictionary defines it as
not just not-believing but an active:
"DISbelief in existence of deity, DOCTRINE that
there is no deity". ............................................. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism
atheism | noun | \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
| MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM
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Catherine Giordano wrote 4Jul2015:
“You have to put the word "church" in quotes
when you say "atheist church".
It is just a place to go on Sunday morning
to hear an [sic] secular inspirational message and be
with friends.
There is no dogma, no official theology.
It is a secular church; not a relgion [sic].
Religion requires belief in a deity.”
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My qualifications to debate about the non-issue conflict
between theists & Atheists:
1~B.A. degree in theology Magna-Cum-Laude
(with-high-honors) from a fully accredited college which has since elevated to
university status,
2~double Master’s degree, one side of which is in
Religions from a fully accredited theological seminary (other side is in
psychology from a fully accredited graduate school),
3~Mensa membership (top-2%-IQ-society),
4~Intertel membership (top 1%-IQ-society).
I’d like to hear the qualifications of anyone who wishes
to joust with me on this non-issue topic which happens to be in the area of my
expertise.
If the topic was neurosurgery or rocket-science, how can
someone not schooled in those disciplines try to assert themselves as an expert
more knowledgeable than those who have post-graduate degrees in those
disciplines? Who would let someone who hasn’t been to neurosurgery school, perform
surgery on their brain? Would you let an experienced master carpenter operate
on your brain?
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Understand this clearly: I am not a theist nor am I
defending theists or theism. I see theism as the extremist right ditch, as
Atheism is the extremist left ditch. This extremist right & left is not
linear but circular, so that the further one goes toward the right or left
extremism, eventually one ends-up at the bottom of this circle in the close statist,
dictatorial, Inquisition-like, Islamo-Fascist-like, Soviet-like, Juche-like neighborhood
of non-Freethought.
In frequenting meetings across the whole spectrum of
human belief systems (from theist to Atheist), I have discovered that humanity
is bipolar. Humans tend to polarize towards one side or another of an issue. My
professional opinion is that Robert Anton Wilson is very correct in his
observation that:
"Most think that everybody must believe something or
other, that if one is not a theist, one must be an atheist, if one does not
have blind faith in X, one must alternatively believe in reverse of X. I have a
suspicion that belief may be the death of intelligence." - Robert Anton
Wilson.
I was planning to attend your Sunday-Assembly up in
Orlando. I dared to express on Sunday-Assembly FB-profile a FREEthought I had
as a naturist-nontheist and was vehemently & repeatedly attacked &
insulted by one of your members to the point that I had to block him. He had a
fanatical devotion to Atheism and wanted to browbeat me into accepting Atheism
into my heart to be my savior. That just confirmed my previous experiences that
Atheists are as fanatical for their extremist, scientifically-unprovable,
faith-based religious-dogma of ATHEISTianity (i.e., Atheism) as are theists
about theirs.
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I agree that the word “church” basically means
“congregation, gathering”.
However, I must disagree with the statement that Atheist
meetings are an opportunity to “hear inspirational messages”. In my lengthy
career of frequenting many, various Atheist meetings, I found that the vast
majority of them focus on ridiculing theists, encouraging each other to
dis-believe in god, plan action to remove god from society and fight theists.
If your particular group is above all that, congratulations, but the fact still
remains that most Atheist meetings & groups are as I described – fermenting
dissatisfaction with theists without building anything constructive as an
alternative.
“You never change things by fighting the existing
reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model
obsolete.”
— Buckminster Fuller
I don’t see the majority of Atheists building a new model
that makes the existing model obsolete. Majority are trying to change things by
fighting the existing reality.
An exception to that is the Atheist-paradise they built
behind the Iron-Curtain.
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?!?-“There is no dogma, no official theology.”-?!?
People have enough of a challenge communicating without
making-up own definitions for words. I must insist that in debating with me,
dictionary definitions be used as the standard for what words mean, and not
inventing own definitions out of thin air just because someone may wish that a
certain word would mean this or that. If that is not agreed upon, this
discussion is over, for I would just be wasting my time with meanings of words
not supported by dictionary.
In the thesaurus, dogma = doctrine. Those 2 words are
synonyms of the 1st degree, and we have already seen above that
Atheism is defined by Merriam-Webster dictionary as a DOCTRINE. So yes, THERE
IS DOGMA in Atheism since Atheism is a DOCTRINE. Also, there most certainly is
an official theology in Atheism – a theology of “DISbelief in existence of
deity”. The word “theology” is a combination of theo=god + logy=study, and
since Atheism has a very definite ideology=idea-study that god(s) do(es) not
exist -- “DISbelief in existence of deity”, it is very much a dogma-doctrine
taking the official theological position promoting the “DISbelief in existence
of deity”, a scientifically-unprovable, faith-based religious-doctrine just like
its opposite theism.
Full Definition of UNBELIEF:
SKEPTICISM esp. in matters of
religious faith
Full Definition of DISBELIEF:
act of REJECTION of something as
untrue
So if someone is simply an unbeliever, they are just
skeptical freethought agnostics, not believing unless & until something is
proven to them.
On the other hand, if someone is actively rejecting
something as untrue, without scientific-proof, closed-mindedly holding-onto the
faith-based religious-dogma of definite-rejection, “DISbelief in existence of
deity”, that would be the definition of an Atheist.
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?!?-“It is a secular church; not a relgion [sic].
Religion requires belief in a deity.”-?!?
Actually the basic definition of “religion” comes from
Latin and means “banding-together.” It does not, indeed, “require belief in a
deity”. Though unfortunately, some subsequent sects have re-introduced some
gods, there are a number of religions which do not “require belief in a deity”:
~Buddhism (esp humanist SGI-Nichiren-Buddhism),
~humanist Unitarian-Universalism,
~humanist NewThought-Science-of-Mind,
~humanist Jainism,
~quantumist Taoism,
~humanist Confucianism,
~humanist Raelism.
Just like
Catholicism,
Hinduism,
Judaism,
Lutheranism,
Muhammadanism,
are denominations of theism, so are
Communism,
HoChiMinhism,
Jucheism
Leninism,
Maoism,
denominations of Atheism. And just how did all those play
out? How nicely did any of these play with others once they got control of
political power? When driving somewhere on a highway, is it better to fall into
the left ditch or the right ditch? Personally I prefer to stay out of both
ditches safely on the multi-lane highway of naturalist-nontheism where the
existence or non-existence of god(s) is a NON-ISSUE.
