ValueCreation-Universalist-NewThought-Humanist

                         1) ValueCreation                               2) Universalist

                         Sgi.org                                                            uUa.org

                         3) NewThought                                     4) Humanist

                         NewThoughtAlliance.org                                  iHeu.org
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1)
1st-Sat 11am--12:30pm; or 1st-Sun 10--11:30am; or 1--2:30pm:
14450 46 Str N (116), 1 blk west of Clearwater-StPete airport tower.
sgi-tampabay.com
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2)

gen interest spkr

9:30am

Patio-Rm s-w corner of Social-Hall

Worship

10:30am

In Octagon

uuclearwater.org

  9:30 am  Open Issues in the Patio Room of the UUC Social Hall. OPEN TO PUBLIC!!
10:30 am  Children's Religious Enrichment Program in class rooms in the UUC Social Hall.
10:30 am  Worship Service  
11:45 am  Social Hour immediately following the service in the UUC Social Hall.
12:30 pm  Humanist Group in the UUC Octagon. All are welcome.
  4:00 pm  Rissho Kosei-kai Buddhist Service in the Patio Room of the UUC Social Hall.
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3)
Sun 10am: Center for Spiritual Living FL-Gulfcoast – Rev. Martin Preston, Minister

6152 126th Ave (Ste 501), Largo, FL 33773-1853
727-538-0900   |    www.CenterForSpirituaLlivingFlGulfCoast.org

Sun 10:30am: Suncoast Center for Spiritual Living – Rev. Alan Vukas, Minister

Jefferson High School, 4401 W Cypress St, Tampa, 33607-4006

813-384-8162  |  www.SuncoastCSL.org | info@suncoastcsl.org

Sun 5:30pm: Center for Spiritual Living Tampa Bay – Rev. Peggie Marks, Minister

439 22Av SE, StPete 33705

813-900-4242 | PastorPeggie@yahoo.com  | www.csl-tb.org

Sun 11am: Center for Spiritual Living Tampa – Rev. Kathryn Knox, Minister

4600 E Busch BL, Tpa 33617

813-985-2428   |   www.CSLTampa.org

Rev. Marla Sanderson - www.newthoughtctr.org - meeting at Unity Peace Cottage

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4) http://www.americanhumanist.org/What_We_Do/Local_Groups/AHA_Groups

UU Humanists of Clearwater Clearwater FL 2470 Nursery Rd Clearwater FL 33764 Contact: Mark Brandt Email: mwbrandt@mail.usf.edu

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• 

  Vindawg Vinnie 1) ValueCreation emphasizes individual-empowerment, inner-transformation, & activism as keys to social-reform toward individual & world HAPPINESS.

  Thursday at 10:44pm · Like
• 

  Vindawg Vinnie 2) Universalist emphasizes universal-principles of most religions & accepts other religions in an inclusive manner, believing in a universal-reconciliation (individual human-revolution) between humanity & Enlightened-Ideal (Buddha-nature), i.e that everyone has the potential for Enlightenment in this lifetime.

  Thursday at 10:45pm · Like
• 

  Vindawg Vinnie 3) NewThought promotes the ideas that Infinite-Intelligence (mystic-LAW-of-ATTRACTION) is everywhere, is the total-POTENTIAL of TANGIBLE-things, true human selfhood (Buddha-nature) is divine, divine-PASSION is the faith-force for constructive-VIBRATION, sickness originates in the mind, & constructive-thinking has healing effect.

  Thursday at 10:45pm · Like
• 

  Vindawg Vinnie 4) Humanist holds philosophy & ethical-perspective that emphasizes value & agency of human beings, individually & collectively, and generally prefers individual-thought & evidence (rationalism, empiricism), over established doctrines (fideism).

  Thursday at 10:45pm · Like
• 

  Vindawg Vinnie ____In the 13th century a Buddhist-monk aware that there are about 80,000 verses of Buddhist scriptures & 80% of useless rituals, determined that there was a need to distill the bottom-line, the Reader’s-Digest version of it all, the least-common-denominator. 
  ____In the 20th century a Medmenham-monk aware that there are about 4,015 religious-philosophies & 80% of useless rituals, determined that there was a need to distill the bottom-line, the Reader’s-Digest version of it all, the least-common-denominator. 
  ____So the Buddhist-monk spent some years going through those many scriptures and distilled it all 
  down to 1-book, 
  then down to 2-chapters of that book, 
  then down to 1-page-summary, 
  then down to 1-sentence-summary which encapsulates it all. 
  ____The Medmenham-monk likewise spent some years going through those many religious-philosophies and distilled it all
  down to 1-book, 
  then down to 1-chapter of that book, 
  then down to a 2-page-summary, 
  then down to 1-sentence-summary which encapsulates it all. 
  ____Buddhist-monk started with 80,000 verses of scriptures and distilled it all down to:
  1-book = Lotus-Sutra,
  2-chapters of that book = 2nd & 16th chapters,
  1-page-summary = Gohonzon focusing-scroll,
  1-sentence-summary = Nam-Myo-Ho-Renge-Kyo.
  ____The Medmenham-monk started with 4,015 religious-philosophies and likewise distilled it all down to:
  1-book = Deuteronomy, 
  1-chapter of that book = 5th chapter,
  2-page-summary = Imperative-Quantum-Commandments &
  Golden-Rule Across-the-Religions, 
  1-sentence-summary =
  Absolute-determined-PASSION makes POTENTIAL TANGIBLE,
  since CAUSE-attracts-EFFECT through VIBRATION.
  ____So one can endlessly chant all 80,000 Buddhist scriptures, or spend the entire lifetime studying all 4,015 religious-philosophies, and the bottom-line is still the same and very simple:
  The CAUSE of constructive
  thoughts-->words-->actions-->habits-->character,
  effects a destiny* of HAPPINESS = heaven = paradise; 
  the CAUSE of destructive
  thoughts-->words-->actions-->habits-->character,
  effects a destiny of unhappiness = hell = suffering; and 
  the CAUSE of mixed, ambivalent constructive-destructive
  thoughts-->words-->actions-->habits-->character,
  effects a destiny of mixed HAPPINESS & unhappiness.
  ____It’s very, very simple: DESTINy=DESTINation.
  If your thoughts-->words-->actions-->habits-->character
  get you on a plane going to Miami and you pray that you land in Boston, don’t be all confused and surprised when you land in Miami. Prayer-treatments do work, but only if you pray to get on the right plane, not that the wrong plane will take you to a different destination. That would be hijacking, and that never ends well.
  ____For an example, one can debate carcass-eating vs. vegetarianism (just like smoking vs, non-smoking), through scripture-bashing, arguing, insulting, & philosophizing, till carcass-eaters convince everybody else that they are right, and still they will die 8.2 years sooner than the vegetarians, no matter how much they pray to live those extra 8.2 years.
  ____If one dishonors parents by committing murder, home-wrecking, theft, slander, or conspiracy-to-attempt any of the above, one puts into motion a series of events which will eventually boomerang back with “interest,” a triple-force avalanche of tragedy-&-misfortune gathered along its path “down-the-mountain.” The perp may be disowned by parents, executed for murder, killed or beaten for home-wrecking, imprisoned for theft, sued for slander, tried for conspiracy-to-attempt any of the above, or bring about like actions against themselves. So if that’s the plane you get on, don’t be surprised when it lands in that destination of misfortune, disaster & unhappiness.
  ____If one honors parents by respecting all life, everyone’s relationships, other’s property & reputations, and contemplates how better to realize the above, one puts into motion a series of events which will eventually boomerang back with “interest,” a triple-force of benefits-&-blessings gathered along its path. The constructive-doer may be honored by parents, receive a Nobel-Peace-Prize, have an awesome loving family & great friends, have sufficient for all their needs, receive praise & accolades from society, or receive like courtesies extended to them. So if that’s the plane you get on, you will be pleasantly elated when you land in that destination of benefits, blessings & HAPPINESS.
  ____And just how does one navigate toward one’s desired
  DESTINy-ation of HAPPINESS through all the storms & air-turbulence? 
  What is the secret?
  ____(www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCxnWWHRpMY)
  What do we know?
  ____(www.youtube.com/watch?v=DscdnUE1u24)
  What illusion do we need to dispel?
  ____(www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4XlKtSROp8)
  How do we thrive?
  ____(www.youtube.com/watch?v=OibqdwHyZxk)
  Can a nation be HAPPY?
  ____(www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zqdqa4YNvI)
  How do we build communities-of-peace?
  ____(www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9VexOP9PDg)
  Absolute-determined-PASSION makes POTENTIAL TANGIBLE,
  since CAUSE-attracts-EFFECT through VIBRATION.
  ____
  Footnote:
  *DESTINy = fate, karma, kismet, aura, vibration, fortune,
  DESTINation, consequence, juju, spell.
  

  The Secret: Trailer 1
  

  
  

  Here's the trailer for the movie The Secret, featuring James Arthur Ray.http://jamesray.com/thesecret

  22 hours ago · Edited · Like · Remove Preview
• 

  Vindawg Vinnie Stephen Hawking (1 of the biggest-brains on Earth) explains karma-destiny with figures 2.3--2.6 in his book: "A-Brief-History-of-Time." www.cmadras.com/255/255a1.pdf 

Cadaver-guttling Vultures & Ghouls

Soka-Gakkai Seikyo-Times, Feb 1986, p 17:

“Each form of life is inseparably linked

with all other beings & things in the universe.

We live together with other living beings and

we ought to identify with the pain of others

to the point that we 

exert ourselves fully to relieve those around us of their sufferings.”
--(Soka-Gakkai Seikyo-Times, Feb 1986, p 17)
======================================

Nichiren Daishonin; Living-Buddhism, Apr 2012, pp 22-23:

“Those who kill even an [animal] are destined for hell,
and those who merely cut up [butcher] dead bodies
cannot avoid the evil paths ... if one does not 

repent [reform, give-up, quit, let-go] of it.

... can be eradicated if one 

repents [reforms, gives-up, quits, lets-go] of it sincerely.”
--(Nichiren Daishonin; WND-I, 662-63; Living-Buddhism, Apr 2012, pp 22-23)

======================================

Veganism:

Practice of abstaining from use of animal products for any purpose.

Term was coined by Donald Watson, co-founder of British Vegan Society.

Doctrine that man should live w/o exploiting animals.

Jain concept of ahimsa, avoidance of violence against living things.

================================================

          Long-term research has shown that, all else being equal, vegetarians outlive carnivores/omnivores by 8.2 extra years of health-&-vigor. Research has also shown that vegetarians & even vegans in America get more protein than they need. The meat-megalopoly in America has everybody brainwashed to think that they need more & more & more protein which “can only be acquired from meat.” They have so generified the word "protein," that whenever I mention The-Ultimate-Meal

(complete meal shake = http://theultimatelife.net/PagePurchase.htm),

they automatically clarify by asserting that I must mean "protein-shake."

The truth is that those who get all that protein, end-up with brittle bones because the body has to use-up its calcium to deal with all that extra protein. There is a lot more needed in nutrition than just protein. Why is it than no one refers to such shakes as:

calorie-shake, 

carbohydrate-shake, 

fiber-shake, 

fat-shake, 

sodium-shake, 

potassium-shake, 

calcium-shake, 

vitamin-shake, 

folic-acid-shake, 

iron-shake, 

choline-shake, 

omega-shake, or

mineral-shake?

Because the meat industry is so powerful that they have brainwashed everyone to assume:

1) that protein is a synonym for the word nutrition,

2) that the ONLY source of protein are the cadavers of slaughtered animals, and

3) that if you ever dare to say anything they consider damaging to their industry of blood, suffering, disease, & premature death, they will sue you like they sued Oprah Winfrey.

          Medical students get, at best, only one 2-credit course in dietetics,

so have way less knowledge about NATURAL cures than my 

LICENSED-NUTRITIONIST, Barbara Lee, RN, 

who has been doing this for decades. Besides, people don’t become physicians in order to teach their patients how to heal themselves and to no longer need physicians. Physicians’ job-security dictates that they make their patients dependent upon them for life until their untimely death.

          I highly recommend that you consult with my nutritionist about your alleged lack of protein and about the wisdom of remaining-in-Neanderthal-lifestyle or going-backward in human-revolution to non-Buddhist Neanderthal-barbarian-diet of cadaver-guttling:

                    Barbara Lee, RN

                    Primary Email: VitGuru@hotmail.com

                    Mobile: 727-744-1969

Diet Extremism

Exchange of ideas w/JP 19Nov2012
Posted here because the guidance I shared with JP may also benefit others.

• Monday
• 12:14pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  I don't like eating meat. I have been trying to cut back. When I was in Egypt I saw things and on TV on how animals are treated. And my cousin had told me, that with life something must die for others to live. Whether and animal or a plant. And then I had thought about it. Then I realized fruits and veggies like tomatos, apples, things that grow on a vine or tree do not kill the plant, so it would be cool if a new trend started that not only are no animals killed but no plants as well in eating.
• 

  12:24pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  I was just informing you that the trend of eating only fruits has been around 4 a long time.
  

  A word of caution though. Sometimes when peeps consider altering their food, they tend to jump to some extreme, end up malnourished, & then say that vegetarianism doesn't work. I'd recommend you start with just simple lacto-ovo-vegetarianism (which includes dairy & eggs). Then months later, if u think u'r ready, leave off dairy, then later eggs. Then later if u'r really concerned about animals, stop using any-&-all animal products including leather. Later yet, u may want to experiment with fruitarianism.
• 
  

  12:25pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  Yea, I was told my blood type requires meat. Anyway I've been trying to eat less meat, and also stick more to beef or larger animal meat vs chicken, so less life is taken.

  I don't like that a whole life taken for 1 meal. Beef to equal 1 life would be months of meals.

  
  

  12:29pm Vindawg Vinnie
• 
  

  My Licensed-Nutritionist-RN says that theory about certain blood-type needing carcass as food is plain Bull-Shit. No human stomach is meant as a grave for decomposing animal cadavers of any kind.
• 
  

  12:31pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  Well we are living in a different world now. We can get veggies and stuff year round. But for those who lived in areas that didn't have crops year round, especially up north, I imagine meat was the only thing possible at times.

  Our teeth are also designed for meat or vegetation. Now it's possible but I think more then 100 years ago for many parts of the world a veggie only diet may have been very hard or impossible.

  Now we have tofu, soy protein, etc. Protein is the only thing needed that is in meat right?

  fat....I hear we need some fat in diet or do you not?
• 
  

  12:40pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  O and about eggs, unfertilized eggs isn't killing anything. I think most vegans say they don't use eggs because of the treatment of chickens and when I saw how they crammed them in cages and the horrible conditions I understand. But you can get eggs now which are marked on boxes from farms with free roaming chickens. They cost more because more land and more work that way but the chickens are treated good.
• 

  12:44pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  Sounds like u need to read a lot more on this subject. There r many theories out there. Every idiot out there has some cockamamie theory that may sound good and gets him/her published. I recommend you look at the evidence of the source. Always consider the source. During WWII when Scandinavians had no meat to eat, they were healthier & lived longer than after the war (& that's pretty NORTH). The longest living humans are the Hunza-ites who live way, way up high in the Himalayas (cold like NORTH) & eat a goat only once in a while on some special occasion. My Licensed-Nutritionist-RN on whose consultations i bet my life-&-health is a 12x-Marathoner, has done countless Halfathons, & is a Picture-of-Health. And how exactly did Atkins die?
  

  Fat only from sources like RAW uncooked un-fried olive-oil or flaxseed-oil.
• 
  

  12:45pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  o ok
• 

  12:47pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  After all the theorizing out there, research has proven that Vegetarians outlive carcass-eating-omnivores by 8.2 years of extra health & vigor.
• 
  

  12:48pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  I don't doubt that.
• 
  

  12:49pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  Btw I have a question about Masonry. I already know what they believe at the high levels so I don't think any promises on secrecy would be violated. I don't know if you got to the level or branch where based on the bible they conclude that lucifer is God. That's as far as I know, but I have learned things beyond that I am curious if they have any idea about.
• 
  

  12:49pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  I don't think they do actually. I wonder if you even got to that point though.
• 

  12:51pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  Protein brainwash is another great commercial brainwash just like that smoking is sexy. In America even Vegans get more than needed protein. And NO, NO, NO decomposing-animal-corpses are neither the only nor the best source of protein.
• 
  

  12:53pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  I'm going to research more on that stuff.
• 

  12:55pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  What is the purpose of your interest in FreeMasonry?
• 
  

  1:01pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  I know based on scriptures and such, they believe lucifer is God. I've seen in the scriptures how they can conclude that. I also know they are trying to or claiming to do something to bring world peace. Also they believe that just as in the time of Israelites, that God will have humans be his executioner. And they believe that just like King Solomon, those he uses can or do get great wealth. Many really think they are doing the right thing. What I've learned in the past few months in the bible, I do not know of anybody teaching or knowing it, even masons. There was not ONE God who was leading ancient Israel, they were being lead by high ranking angels, some of which were opposed to eachother. I wonder if anybody knows this, if freemasons know this, because if not, they are all in a trap and don't realize it.
• 
  

  1:01pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  If they do know that, then what has made them decide the route they are going is the correct one. And I have no idea how much you know or how high you got, so you may have no idea what I am talking about.

  and low level masons are merely a fellowship and networking and helping charities. again I am talking about high level stuff

  my interest is in helping people, that's it.
• 

  1:13pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  I am high-level Sublime-Prince, Master of the Royal Secret, Scottish-Rite-Mason. I know about all that you speak of.
  

  U used to be a JW. I bet if you read stuff that enemies of JW's write, u would find that at least 1/2 of it is all BS miss-information.

  If u just wanna help people, I'd STRONGLY recommend u start by promoting the ValueCreation-Association which teaches people how to use the Quantum-force to physically create the ideal environment of HAPPINESS for themselves individually & thereby for society collectively.
• 
  

  1:20pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  My interest in helping people........there are major things happening in the world today and about to happen. Bible prophecy stuff. Israel is a big thing, since they were foretold to be regrouped as a nation. The world has been getting smaller and smaller with all the unions and in the near future it's possible for a one world government. In the bible, things Jesus said have been scrambled up, his prophecies of the end days were scrambled like eggs and what he really said is different then what you read, I've unscrambled a lot of it and it's dead on accurate. I can't think why they scrambled things up but they did. I see at some point in the future, very possibly in our lifetime, things happening which will cause a division in the world and it could result in a holocaust type situation world wide. People on opposing sides both thinking they are on God's side or the correct side.
  

  I'll use my experience as a JW as an example......most JW's are good people. They all THINK they are doing what's right and really serving God. I traced the history and discovered that starting in 1918, it was taken over by corruption. And slowly from 1918 to today, changes steadily slowly going in. JW's are now doing many things that the bible condemns. It's the very top, whoever is in charge, are corrupting all of them. Same thing can happen w/ masons, they can all be good people, but if something bad on the very top, it can mess it up for all.
• 
  

  1:24pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  So without discussing any intentions, only government leaders and top top who are would know what plans they have. But just on understandings. I know the lucifer part. But do they know that there were opposing angels leading Israel? I just wonder if they are at that point, what do they see that I don't.
• 
  

  1:29pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  I understand the all seeing eye, out of many one, either understood as the body of christ or God, each person makes up and him on top leading. or relating to religion, out of many or out of all religions they all end up going to the same God. But then the question is, is that the true one, or the one who is ruling the world right now. You have the scriptures about the one who sits in the throne of God showing himself to be God. So they can be correct and at the same time incorrect.
• 

  1:43pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  Look carefully @ these words:
  

  "things happening which will cause a division in the world and it could result in a holocaust type situation world wide. People on opposing sides both thinking they are on God's side or the correct side."

  That happened @ WWII,
  that happened @ WWI,
  That happened throughout history from time to time with various alliances which divided the world,
  and will continue to happen until the world self-destructs (humans destroy d wrld), or until groups like ValueCreation-Association hold influential sway in the world to make it HAPPY & thereby peaceful.

  There are innumerable conspiracy-theories and end-of-world predictions around, and they have been around for LITERALLY 1,000's of yrs. Some base their theories on the Bible, some on the Mayan-calendar, some on Nostradamus, some on various other many sources, some on all-of-the-above.

  ALL prophecies are CONDITIONAL!!!
  Chapter 2 of Stephen Hawking's book "A-Brief-History-of-Time" explains that in good yet plain detail. No prophecy is cut-in-stone!! All prophecy hinges on people continuing to act exactly as they have been up to the point of prophecy. If people put into action different causes, the effects automatically change. It's like a parent saying to the kid: "If u do this, u'll b spanked, but if u do that, u'll get cake." If a significant % of people believe a certain prophecy to be cut-in-stone, they will subconsciously make it a self-fulfilling-prophecy.
• 
  

  1:47pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  I know. I have a much higher level of consciousness to what's happening in the world today then most. I see where it's heading towards. I was asking about this stuff because I know many are trying to do the right thing, and if I have truly learned things they don't know, it may help avoid a bad path if that was about to happen. If things I think may happen come to pass, I will be on the side that will not take up a sword. Those who kill are the ones being tricked.
• 

  1:47pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  Let's leave what Masons knw or don't knw out of this discussion. It is a sacred brotherhood which doesn't discuss its affairs with the non-members.
  Let's just discuss what u & I knw aside from the fraternity.
• 
  

  1:50pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  I mention it because there is not a single religion that has a remote understanding of the deep things in the bible, except maybe them. And certain jews. But the majority of masons are a fraternity, it seems only the very high levels or certain branches that may or may not get into the beliefs. I was trying to give it a chance to explain, if they are really on the right, I'd be interested.
• 
  

  1:50pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  But okay, we'll leave it out.

  Just you personally.......are you aware that angels were the ones who were leading Israel?
• 

  1:52pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  Hmmm, sounds a bit conceded: "I have a much higher level of consciousness to what's happening in the world today then most."
  

  I've known about things u'r just now beginning to discover, since b4 we ever met, yet have u ever heard me brag like that?

  It's not about how much we know, it's about what we're doing with what we know that is making those around us view us with respect worth emulating.
• 
  

  1:52pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  Jesus said that no man has ever seen the father. But in the old testament it shows some of them spoke ot YHWH face to face, in person, etc. That entity was an angel.

  I said that because I see a potential very dark future and possibly people who think they are doing good end up doing bad, and if they only knew it may change things.

  Not trying to be conceded.

  If the ultimate plan is peace and not killing anybody then good. If not, then bad.
• 

  1:56pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  I knw much more about what happened back then, then I'd care to say, because it might potentially end-me-up in a padded-cell or in an interrogation rm in Area-51.
• 
  

  1:56pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  Have you ever heard of YHWH having a wife, Asherah?

  What I know is a combination of linking ancient religions/beliefs/God to modern time, to the globalization of the earth, and all the hidden and misunderstood bible prophecy happening right now.

  everything is connected in a surreal way
• 
  

  2:05pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  And the really deep things I've learned in the bible, that some of which I know masons know about, I learned it all, Jesus said he would send the spirit of truth, which would reveal all things. I've learned so many deep things, and unsure if you know, but many parts of the bible in any english translation are impossible to get the true message, you have to look in interlinear because the translators who didn't have holy spirit thought parts were irrelevant and it blocked the true message. But I learned all these things just reading and from that. I am not bound by any promises of secrecy. I wonder, only other ones who know some of it atleast, would there be a reason to not make for public view many of the secrets or misunderstood things of the bible?
• 
  

  2:08pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  there is nobody to talk to on any of this stuff. the closest ones who remotely understanding or knowing any of this are masons at a high degree, way past the networking and fraternity stuff. I am unsure how much of the same things they know, but also things like that, why not let everybody know. So up to you what you want to tell me or advice on what to do with the information.
• 

  2:10pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  This planet is @ a Y in the road. It could go either way at this point. There are about as many people pushing 1-way as are pushing the other way; as many for killing as for world-peace. Which side is your ACTION on? Or are u just talking and letting the mass of negative humanity pull the world toward destruction? U MUST ACT!!
• 
  

  2:13pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  That's what I am trying to do. I know some branch of masonry have a lot of control in the world. If they don't know the things I learned, it may help go on a peace route instead of a killing route. But none wil talk to me. I guess the only thing I can do is make a website, and list as much information as I can and if it's meant to be they may run into it and rethink things.
• 
  

  2:14pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  This was the whole point in me starting this conversation about this topic.
• 

  2:21pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  Yes I am intimately acquainted with the inner family matters of YHWH & the others. There is enough info out there for the truly teachable to learn what's really going on beyond the shallow obvious. There are basically 3 level of understanding on these matters:
  1) outer-most & largest mass of the sheeple-mob who has no clue;
  2) those who comprehend a little bit and spend all their time studying & reading & researching every "prophecy" & conspiracy-theory that rolls down the pike;
  3) those who r really in the know and are quietly going about trying to influence events toward the best chances of survival for themselves & their posterity.
  

  Starting a website will just b adding yet another 1 to the 1,000's already out there, for more reading material for the arm-chair do-nothings.
• 
  

  2:23pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  I'd be a lvl 3+ lol
• 

  2:23pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  To really improve things, you MUST place yourself in a position where you are MEASURABLY ACTING to motivate people to likewise MEASURABLY ACT to MEASURABLY improve society.
• 
  

  2:24pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  Are you familar with the prophecy of Israel in Ez about gog and magog attack against them?
• 

  2:28pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  I think u could do much more good for the world if you become strongly involved in changing people's lives through the world-wide 14+Million-strong ValueCreation-Association.
  

  But if you're so fixated on the Masons, become one.

  Of course I'm familiar with "the prophecy of Israel in Ez about gog and magog attack against them."

  I've known about things u'r just now beginning to discover, since b4 u were a glimmer in your daddy's eye.
• 
  

  2:32pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  There is no reason for me to join them, masons that is. I understand what you are saying. 2012........it won't be the end of the world......but it may actually have meaning, it may be the end of an age. The bible says the sun and moon were created also for signs and appointed times I think. I mentioned the Gog and Magog thing because it's becoming very ripe for that sort of thing to happen now. I have to ask myself, if I have only 1 year to try to help or do I have 20/30 years, etc.
• 
  

  2:33pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  If it was true that astrologers knew when Jesus was born, did they use divinely inspired appointed time to know that, and if so, was 2012 a divinely inspired appointed time for a new change to happen. they say an age of enlightenment and it's strange the things I have been learning which began......Oct. And Oct is the start of the jewish new year.
• 

  2:35pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  U stepped outside of the JW-box and now u think you can see it all so clearly. But u r still inside the Bible-box. Wait till u one day step outside the Bible-box; then u'll think you really see clearly. True-reality out there is like the Matryoshka dolls, one inside the other which is inside the other, which is inside the other.... You've just stepped from the smallest one to the next one, but there are so many "dolls" (boxes) that u r still inside of.
• 
  

  2:38pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  I did step outside of the bible box. Infact I was close to putting it with most other books, but then I saw and learned how all english translations are incorrect. I started learning what it really teaches, and much of what's inside it made me convinced several parts of it are definitely not written by human words/wisdom but higher powers.
• 
  

  2:39pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  But most religions, even myths, are linked and end up teaching almost the same thing

  kind of like Zeus/Hera is very similar to YHWH/Asherah, etc.

  and it looks like the bible teaches that originally the world was divided and angels were put in charge of leading people throughout it.

  and Israel was an 'inheritance' to it's God because he inherited it.
• 

  2:42pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  Jewish NY was 17Sep?!?
  

  Astrologers who knew when Jesus was born didn't just study & study & study.... They got up off their asses and traveled to become part of history. If they just wrote their ideas on some parchment-website, u'd never have heard about them
• 
  

  2:42pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  one scripture says, "Egypt my people, Assyria my sword, and Israel my inheritance"

  What happened on Sept 17th? anything?

  other then the end of the year 2012 on biblical time
• 

  2:47pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  The Bible, like Nostradamus, leaves a lot to interpretation in all sorts of directions.
  

  Yeah, I celebrated the Jewish New-Yr 5773 on a cruise with my wife.
• 
• 2:49pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  So wise astrologer from the east, r u ever gonna DO ANYTHING MEASURABLE ABOUT IMPROVING THE WORLD?
• 
  

  2:49pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  The bible has some mistakes, and some intentional deceptions as well. Mistakes would be from scribes and people who tried to change some things, mistakes from english translations when the translators didn't understand the deep things and left out important parts. But it's still possible to get through those things.
• 

  2:52pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  If God is in control and the Bible is His word, y is it he couldn't prevent the mistakes and intentional deceptions knowing that sincere people will believe every word? Is he playing some degenerate game of screwing with humans?
• 
  

  3:10pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  Nope. It's amazing really. When God began creation, he had to start separating things. Without distinction there is chaos. For simplistic terms to be understood by humans, he created the heavens and earth. Heaven was order, earth was chaos. Now to bring order to chaos, his spirit was on the surface of the waters of the earth which covered the whole earth, he said that his spirit would be light and GOOD, then he seperated it. So now there was light and darkness and a distinction. then he divided within heaven and earth. So in a sense light and darkness. On earth water was the light and ground the darkness. He was also making the knowledge of good and bad/light and darkness. But he also then divided the light and darkness as well. So that both had good and bad points. His goal is to identify evil and banish it and have only good people and eternal life for creation. Now when he initially made adam and eve and the garden of eden, there the sun and moon were also signs of who was ruling. You'll notice in early books angels or things would change from day to night. 2 distinct sets. It gets very complex later on, and it's not a black and white thing now or then. Anyway........... God is love and he wants people to live forever or his creation. Whether in heaven or on earth I won't talk about right now. But how does he do it? Also having a knowledge of good and evil is good as well, so that people do not do evil. also becaue of these divisions there was an adversary as well. so when he told them they can eat out of every tree except the tree of knowledge of good and bad. They didn't know what was bad so they may have not thought it would be bad to disobey. But also when you know something is wrong it is a sin. So either from eating it being the sin or since it was impossible to not sin. He also then sets up right away a redemption possibility. All will be tested, but those who are truly good people, all people can do good or evil, those who go good, will be able to get eternal life. It's all a plan to give eternal life to the good. To have identified and banished evil.
• 
  

  3:12pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  the scriptures say that the father and the son both have angels, and that the adversary took 1/3 of the angels. Did he take 1/3 or did he have 1/3 to begin with. As the sun and moon, division of day and they were set to show who was ruling. Again things have changed, and it's a lot more complex then what I've said, but maybe you can undertand that a little bit.
• 
  

  3:15pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  I am making a video and maybe within a month I'll have it posted. It will explain it really well. And it's all in the bible too. But for the reasons I mentioned nobody has seen it that way before.

  Or that understanding was lost long ago.
• 

  3:25pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  The whole reply was from Biblical form of mythology, and it didn't address my question at all. That's y I say u'r still in the Bible-box. "Maybe you can undertand that a little bit," so implies that I must be in ignorant darkness. OK, have it your way -- I don't really care whether people think me in-the-know or not. I'm glad u have the retirement-time on ur hands to study all this stuff which I dealt with kalpas ago.
  

  Another question I'm not getting an answer to is: "What MEASURABLE ACTion do u intend to undertake to improve the world?" Just adding yet another web-video to the 1,000's already out there is not MEASURABLE ACTion.

  I need to sign-off for now cause I got to work on my next Toastmaster speech.
• 
  

  3:39pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  He isn't playing games.....people are being refined on their experiences and also they are being tested or showing if they are good or bad. Remember the adultress who was about to be stoned to death and what Jesus said? I didn't say maybe you can understand a little bit to insult, it's very hard without a chart and drawings, when I get the video thing done then it's very easy to understand. So the maybe you can understand abit was on my own ability to explain this with just words, so it's my lack of skill explaining this in just words that would make it hard to understand. I know you are a very intelligent person.
  

  I'll tell you ONE measureable action I am working on right now to improve the world. JW's and what they are doing, their policies are hurting many familes, result in suicides, etc, because of their shunning policies and deception the leaders do against them. I am working on a project putting things together that the very day it's done, thousands of ex jw's will look at that day. And also a plan to bring a lot of this up the chain within JW's to hopefully spawn a change, which if it happens will result in untold positive changes for many lives. Right now those who are JW's, if they wake up to it, they loose all family and friends if they leave. It's really bad.

  As for a website among thousands not being measurable.......what did one corny video among millions of videos on the internet do recently? Things become viral and voices spread. My website will have a message for jews/muslims, people of all faiths and religions, which could wake them up that they shouldn't be fighting and warring, they are all brothers and all want to serve the true God.

  Just 1 person can learn something and start a chain reaction of good things.

  So after the JW project I hope to have done and complete within a month, then the website I hope to have mostly done in the next couple months, then I am looking into ways to help more truly poor people, real hungry ones.
• 
  

  3:41pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  ANd my website among thousands will be having things and teaching things no others have. So it's not among thousands actually.

  But it's good, you put some work, make it, then just let it stay and keep helping people while you do other things. It's working 24/7/365 once it's up.
• Monday
• 

  10:15pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  I wish u success in improving this planet of yours. Any ACTion toward enlightenment is a good idea and a lot better than doing nothing. When I say "measurable," I mean LITERALLY measurable -- something I can count and something that anyone can verify.
  

  How can u MEASURABLY fix JW's w/o destroying WT-Society?
• 
  

  11:09pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  By breaking the false illusion and idea they have that is so destructive.
• 
  

  11:17pm
  

  JP
  

  
  

  What about you, I told you a few things. What is the measurable thing you are concentrating on?
• 

  11:35pm
  

  Vindawg Vinnie
  

  
  

  At the moment, the most constructive collective I'm aware of (not that it's the only one) is the ValueCreation-Association. The way I measure/count my activity is by how many visitors I can get to visit those get-togethers and find there the energy to accomplish more with their lives than they have been up until then.